Slight difference between front end pace vs .fit file pace? #1838
Replies: 37 comments 67 replies
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yes it could be a km/miles conversion issue. QZ is doing all the math in meters under the hood. Anyway a debug log with a fit file will be perfect to analyze this |
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I've just taken a deeper dive into the fit file and the speed in m/s calculates correctly, but the distance covered implies a different pace (i.e. the pace that the websites report). So it looks like it is the distance calculation that is somehow wrong in the conversion. Attached is a spreadsheet showing the calc for the final lap of a .fit file extracted using fitfileviewer (zip uploaded) |
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as i said for debug log on android 14 you need the beta. 2.16.24 logs on
/documents/qz
Il giorno mer 29 nov 2023 alle 22:15 yellowbarchetta <
***@***.***> ha scritto:
… Switched on logging, but not sure where to access the log file from? Might
it be hidden under Android 14?
As an aside, the gap between displayed pace and actual distance / pace was
much bigger tonight. 8:19 per mile on the app display, 8m49 time to cover a
mile. That suggests its likely a treadmill issue I guess; wonder if it
struggled tonight in the garage where the temps were close to freezing.
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ok thanks!
Il giorno mer 29 nov 2023 alle 23:24 yellowbarchetta <
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… Lol, found it. Hate the Google files app.
looks like the debug didn't write when I ran earlier so I'll sort tomorrow.
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OK, here's some data. Admittedly this is coming from the "fake treadmill" but I think it represents the same issue when I've post-reviewed the .fit file both as a data table and when it gets uploaded to processing services. The "fake" treadmill speed was set to 8m16 per mile, and in the file itself the "speed" reading in m/s is absolutely consistent at 3.239. That calculates out at 8m16.86s per mile, so pretty much in line with the "displayed" speed on the QZ app. But the distance entries in the fit file are inconsistent. They are mostly around 3.2m difference between each spot, but for the most part they vary between about 3.17m to 3.25m. I'm not surprised that there are differences there, as presumably the precision of the logging of a distance record isn't exactly ever 1s, even though the entries are stamped with 1s precision. However, some of the distance entries are quite a lot bigger than this (ranging from 0m to nearly 55m) which wouldn't be explained by timing precision. Every second does have a record, so there are no time gaps bigger than 1s. Even ignoring the "big" gaps though, the distance increments at a pace which is slower than the treadmill pace, and that doesn't seem right to me. Presumably the "pace" and the "distance" are coming from slightly different sources, or being processed in different ways? The implied pace by distance / time is about 8m20/21 per mile vs the "set" speed of 8m16 per mile. I'll do the same exercise from the treadmill itself tonight, but in the meanwhile here is the debug log and the .fit file for that session. I'm pretty sure you can see the same discrepancy between distance/time and pace in the raw log file, having dropped the log into excel and played around a little. Hope it intrigues! It looks to me as if the app receives both a distance and a pace from the device and doesn't try to ensure that they are consistent. But I might be wrong!! |
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i didn't have a chance to check the log yet but for your information, qz is calculating the distance from the speed received from the treadmill, so pace, speed and distance are on the same information. Could you please quick me point to one big gap in the file? (i don't have a lot of time in these days, so i'm trying to collect all the info that you have already analyzed) |
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screensaver shouldn't affect qz because is forcing always on, isn't working
this for you?
Il giorno gio 30 nov 2023 alle 12:25 yellowbarchetta <
***@***.***> ha scritto:
… I'm going to say "probably" always in foreground. Couldn't 100% say so,
and screensaver might have kicked in, I left my phone on the desk.
Those big gaps might be a red herring then.
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i would like to check if you see these gap also tonight. if so there is
something that it's not working with the timer, maybe that's about some
power saving scenario of the phone
Il giorno gio 30 nov 2023 alle 12:28 yellowbarchetta <
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… Yes, it does work fine normally to stay unlocked. I don't think the phone
locked when recording, but I can't be certain.
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yeah but it can't be that the case of the fake treadmill profile. there
it's for sure every seconds. so there is a major issue, i hope, only on
your system somehow
Il giorno gio 30 nov 2023 alle 13:26 yellowbarchetta <
***@***.***> ha scritto:
… Yep, that looks like an issue if the app isn't getting a new update every
second. Which may well be what I'm seeing if my TM doesn't send a record
reliably every second. Still think there's another issue "somewhere" if the
calculation of distance on a second by second basis still doesn't precisely
equal speed x time (I'd expect distance to be absolutely the same for every
second if the speed is the same too). But that might disappear with tweaks
to the way the fit file is written.
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we can also try the same on windows for example
Il giorno gio 30 nov 2023 alle 13:28 cagnulein ***@***.***> ha
scritto:
… yeah but it can't be that the case of the fake treadmill profile. there
it's for sure every seconds. so there is a major issue, i hope, only on
your system somehow
Il giorno gio 30 nov 2023 alle 13:26 yellowbarchetta <
***@***.***> ha scritto:
> Yep, that looks like an issue if the app isn't getting a new update every
> second. Which may well be what I'm seeing if my TM doesn't send a record
> reliably every second. Still think there's another issue "somewhere" if the
> calculation of distance on a second by second basis still doesn't precisely
> equal speed x time (I'd expect distance to be absolutely the same for every
> second if the speed is the same too). But that might disappear with tweaks
> to the way the fit file is written.
>
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yes exactly, if on windows we don't see the holes and the fit file is
better, means that the holes on your phone are the responsible for this
Il giorno gio 30 nov 2023 alle 18:13 yellowbarchetta <
***@***.***> ha scritto:
… I suppose though this is the question to ask - if you run a "fake
treadmill" on your phone or on windows, does the distance for every
"second" come out exactly the same, or does it vary by small and / or large
amounts? Because if the app is getting speed from the treadmill only, then
the same distance should be calculated for every second that is recorded.
It's the variability of that "distance" which is creating the possibility
of displayed speed not equalling .fit file speed (because the .fit file is
processed in a way which takes the distance as being correct, and the time
as correct, and then back calculates the speed).
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nope that's fine for sure, i already double check it. i'm 99% sure that the
issue are your holes. or at least they are the biggest issues
Il giorno gio 30 nov 2023 alle 18:20 yellowbarchetta <
***@***.***> ha scritto:
… I'm not great at code, but if this is the source of the distance figures,
then is there something in here which is creating the lack of precision,
perhaps by using milliseconds?
`
Distance += ((Speed.value() / 3600000.0) * -- 108 |
((double)lastRefreshCharacteristicChanged.msecsTo(QDateTime::currentDateTime())));
I've just snipped out one example of where it looks (to my untrained eye!)
that a calculation is being made. `
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but they are 2 different process: the distance is calculated with the
greatest precision and then every seconds it's written on the fit file. the
total distance would be ok. the counter side is that you are seeing a
distance "floating" during the workout in the fit file, but it's useless
since it's the speed that it's processed for pace and of course speed on
strava for example .
aren't you agree?
Il giorno gio 30 nov 2023 alle 19:45 yellowbarchetta <
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… What I mean is that if you compute the difference between 09:00:00.123 and
09:00:01.456 you'll get 1333msec difference. If you then use that in the
formula to compute distance you'll calculate (say) 5m/s x 1333msec = 6.665m
travelled. But if the .fit file record only rounds to whole seconds you'd
have speed = 5m/s, time = 1s, but distance = 6.665m. Then if you process
that fit file you'd actually compute a distance of 6.665m over 1s =
6.665m/s.
If the original calculation was whole seconds only you'd have speed =
5m/s, time = 1s, distance = 5m. Which would then process correctly.
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nope in that way you have a rounding, it will not work for sure. you can
try on excel :)
nope app doesn't read milliseconds, but if there is holes, it will also
write holes in the timestamp of the fit file
Il giorno gio 30 nov 2023 alle 20:46 yellowbarchetta <
***@***.***> ha scritto:
… Wouldn't this work?
Distance += ((Speed.value() / **3600.0**) *
((double)lastRefreshCharacteristicChanged.**secsTo**(QDateTime::currentDateTime())));
Enjoy your sleep!!
I don't think apps would read the millisecs in the timestamps in the fit
file? Though I might be wrong about that, but I think they expect whole
seconds only.
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yes i'm using every day for file analysis
Il giorno ven 1 dic 2023 alle 12:58 yellowbarchetta <
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… Do you subscribe to ChatGPT to allow file uploads?
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Agreed, that first entry should be zero distance. But later in the file
zero distance shouldn't occur if there is a speed registered. Obviously if
speed is zero then distance should be zero too later in the file
…On Sun, 3 Dec 2023, 17:17 Roberto Viola, ***@***.***> wrote:
Upload.from.GitHub.for.iOS.png (view on web)
<https://github.com/cagnulein/qdomyos-zwift/assets/48216/e2e06afd-b134-4330-906e-e854684f432d>
It's the first record with the instant speed and instant power. It looks
correct to me, why we should remove this entry?
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I scrolled the whole fit file with fit file viewer but I can’t see any
distance = 0 line apart the first one. Am I missing something?
Il giorno dom 3 dic 2023 alle 18:22 yellowbarchetta <
***@***.***> ha scritto:
… Agreed, that first entry should be zero distance. But later in the file
zero distance shouldn't occur if there is a speed registered. Obviously if
speed is zero then distance should be zero too later in the file
On Sun, 3 Dec 2023, 17:17 Roberto Viola, ***@***.***> wrote:
> Upload.from.GitHub.for.iOS.png (view on web)
> <
https://github.com/cagnulein/qdomyos-zwift/assets/48216/e2e06afd-b134-4330-906e-e854684f432d>
>
> It's the first record with the instant speed and instant power. It looks
> correct to me, why we should remove this entry?
>
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Hmm, let me check if I sent the right .fit file!! |
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Hah ok, yes I didn’t understand it. I will check the log tomorrow
Thanks
Il giorno dom 3 dic 2023 alle 21:05 yellowbarchetta <
***@***.***> ha scritto:
… Yes, though maybe I've not communicated well! It's where the distance
doesn't increase between two time stamps e.g. this one early on - distance
at 22.85m for both seconds, despite there being time elapsed and a speed
recorded. Garmin processes the speed graph by reading the "speed" entries,
but Strava processes the speed graph by plotting the distance / time pace,
so it has little spikes when the distance doesn't increment, or when it
"catches up" on the next second.
image.png (view on web)
<https://github.com/cagnulein/qdomyos-zwift/assets/58736713/ae4fa8cb-4779-49a5-af16-7b02d70cda5f>
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it happens because your treadmill sends the metrics every 1s so sometimes, the thread is anticipating the treadmill and so it has the previous calculated distance. |
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yes this version doesn't have the smtp account, i will add it, thanks.
i had an idea to implement the 1sec odometer easily (i hope). i will think
about it, thanks
Il giorno mar 5 dic 2023 alle 23:03 yellowbarchetta <
***@***.***> ha scritto:
… Tried this tonight. No zero distance in a second, but still a lot more
variability than makes sense to me when the fit file only deals with whole
seconds. THat said, it doesn't make a difference in practical terms other
than making the graph a bit less neat.
As an aside, this version (and the same in this branch) doesn't seem to
email the .fit files to me? Not a big deal as I know the main release
works, but just thought I'd flag it.
Here's Garmin's graph
image.png (view on web)
<https://github.com/cagnulein/qdomyos-zwift/assets/58736713/688eacaa-fbbe-4f6c-8b18-20747dc5a9b0>
Here's Strava's graph
image.png (view on web)
<https://github.com/cagnulein/qdomyos-zwift/assets/58736713/15f6c9a0-cf43-4a0b-88c9-1db41e202a95>
Activity is this one
https://www.strava.com/activities/10334488370/overview
Tue Dec 5 21_26_09 2023.zip
<https://github.com/cagnulein/qdomyos-zwift/files/13573404/Tue.Dec.5.21_26_09.2023.zip>
debug-Tue_Dec_5_20_27_05_2023.zip
<https://github.com/cagnulein/qdomyos-zwift/files/13573428/debug-Tue_Dec_5_20_27_05_2023.zip>
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@yellowbarchetta i created this https://github.com/cagnulein/qdomyos-zwift/actions/runs/7111680704 following your idea to write at 1s. So what I did in the detail: i still have the classic odometer variable calculated everytime that I received an event from the fitness device, but I have also a distance1s variable, that increments every seconds using the actual speed. It should works. Let me know! |
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about the email, i checked the code and it should be right, maybe it was only a glitch. could you please try again? |
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yes i saw a smtp error. i will check on my side then.
did you see also the new build with the fit file at 1s?
Il giorno mer 6 dic 2023 alle 13:14 yellowbarchetta <
***@***.***> ha scritto:
… It happened on every side-loaded version that I've tried, so I don't think
it was a one-off. The only thing that I'd changed was I amended the email
address to match the one you've whitelisted. Previously I had a spam trap
in there ***@***.***) and that always worked to email me
the .fit file. Now I've amended to ***@***.*** (and used the
side loaded versions) it's failing.
Would I be able to see something in a debug file?
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Ah, no it's not that view of the laps - that's just one that Strava does
with it's defaults.
It's the "laps" view that can be seen on the website view (or in Garmin
Connect). I'll grab some screenshots.
…On Thu, 7 Dec 2023 at 21:48, Roberto Viola ***@***.***> wrote:
that's great!
actually the sum is fine in kms on strava
7CF93B2C-A1FD-4191-88AD-4B428957836A.png (view on web)
<https://github.com/cagnulein/qdomyos-zwift/assets/48216/525e0fb3-11f8-4a7e-8bee-c77a8e3141df>
A6836759-FCEF-4D35-8FE2-01F5C2C8ED56.png (view on web)
<https://github.com/cagnulein/qdomyos-zwift/assets/48216/ee636a7a-43a0-480b-8ae4-5d2e4753cc59>
am i missing something?
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strange, i didn't change any settings. let me check it
Il giorno ven 8 dic 2023 alle 16:24 yellowbarchetta <
***@***.***> ha scritto:
… This version has the issue where the settings menu can't be accessed :-(
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It might have been me getting confused with the version I installed; so I
would ignore it for now!!
…On Fri, 8 Dec 2023 at 15:51, Roberto Viola ***@***.***> wrote:
strange, i didn't change any settings. let me check it
Il giorno ven 8 dic 2023 alle 16:24 yellowbarchetta <
***@***.***> ha scritto:
> This version has the issue where the settings menu can't be accessed :-(
>
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Yep, all good, my error.
Tested out the final lap issue using fake treadmill, all seems to work
perfectly now.
…On Fri, 8 Dec 2023, 16:29 Roberto Viola, ***@***.***> wrote:
Just tried this
https://github.com/cagnulein/qdomyos-zwift/suites/18873058415/artifacts/1101551631
and it worked fine for the settings page . So let me know when you will try
it :)
Thanks
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Awesome, thanks!
Il giorno ven 8 dic 2023 alle 18:28 yellowbarchetta <
***@***.***> ha scritto:
… Yep, all good, my error.
Tested out the final lap issue using fake treadmill, all seems to work
perfectly now.
On Fri, 8 Dec 2023, 16:29 Roberto Viola, ***@***.***> wrote:
> Just tried this
>
https://github.com/cagnulein/qdomyos-zwift/suites/18873058415/artifacts/1101551631
> and it worked fine for the settings page . So let me know when you will
try
> it :)
>
> Thanks
>
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> Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub
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@yellowbarchetta i just fixed a bug introduced by the 1s odometer thing that if you do 2 workouts in a single qz session, the second one will have a negative odometer. |
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Will gather some data on this next time I use the treadmill, but I've noticed that the pace that the app reports on the front end is always out by a small amount when the .fit file is decoded and used by websites such as Garmin Connect. Not much, but always slower - e.g. pace on the screen on the app might be 8m19s per mile, but when uploaded the pace reports as 8m24s per mile (just examples).
I've not logged this as a bug as I don't know if I'm just expecting something to be identical when it shouldn't, and I've not tested to see whether the same issue presents if I use metric rather than imperial (sorry, but as a UK user minutes per mile is my default!). I wondered if maybe the conversion to miles was slightly inaccurate though?
Distance doesn't get affected though, and as speed = distance / time it would make most sense to me if it was the visual display of pace that was the issue rather than the data recorded in the .fit file. Anyone else seen something similar?
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